“If you were to die today and stand before God and he were to ask you, ‘Why should I let you into heaven?’ what would you say?”
So starts the patter of many well-rehearsed evangelism techniques. But is this the right question? I have a task that I wonder if you might help me with. I was wondering if someone might show me Scripture that says that Christians will live in heaven forever or that heaven is the eternal destiny of the righteous.
Now, let me be clear: I’m not trying to start a fight here; and I don’t really have much of an agenda other than to simply see what Scriptures you think might teach that. So please save your comments about what you think about heaven for another post (one that I will write at some point). For now, just let me know which Bible passages actually teach that heaven is the destiny of believers.
{ 8 comments… read them below or add one }
Will, I think that you are absolutely correct by your question about heaven. I believe in a literal millennial kingdom, followed by an eternity on a new creation. Revelation is clear enough for me to understand that God will come and dwell with mankind on that new creation – the destiny of believers is not heaven. God got it right the first time. God created Adam and Eve to live in and fill a creation, and that will be accomplished in eternity. I mentioned this very subject here: http://sh-66books.blogspot.com/2009/05/hymnbook-theology.html
“And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God” ~ Rev. 19:1
David, Rev. 19 certainly does mention heaven and people there, but Rev. 21 (which comes right on the heels of Rev. 19 brings heaven down to earth; notice especially verses 2-3: “1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea existed no longer. 2 I also saw the Holy City, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared like a bride adorned for her husband. 3 Then I heard a loud voice from the throne: Look! God’s dwelling is with men, and He will live with them.” Compare it with Rev. 5:8-10 where God’s people will reign on the earth.
Again, I’m looking for passages that teach not simply that heaven exists (I believe that!) and that people are there (I believe that too!) but that it is the final abode, the eternal dwelling place of the redeemed.
I think you will find it more difficult to locate “chapter and verse” which clearly dilienates what you’re looking for. When attempting to describe the eschaton, we must take into consideration what the whole of Scripture has to say regarding the matter. Most conservative commentators will agree that at the consummation of all things, the walls of seperation between heaven and earth, God and man, will be torn down and, like you mention, the new heavens and the new earth – in a sense – paradise restored, will be the dwelling place for redeemed mankind for all eternity.
I’m definitely of that opinion. I’m just trying to see why we have come to the dualistic conclusion in many circles that Earth is bad and Heaven is good. I’m trying to see what Biblical warrant people have for asking the evangelistic question, “Are you going to heaven when you die?” I think our entire paradigm is skewed, but before I can evaluate it well and write about it I would like to see what passages people think of when asked to support the “go to heaven when you die” concept. Thanks for your input, David. I appreciate it.
Well, I think there is merit to the notion that believers who die before the end will go to heaven. Like we’ve mentioned, heaven is popluted with people even now. It is simply that at the consummation of all things heaven and earth will once again be one. I for one believe the seperation of the two occurred at the Fall. And that Christ, as the Second Adam, is going to restore all things at this time.
As to the dualistic tendency you’re finding, I’m seeing a mixture of Plantonic philosophy and Christian theology in people’s thinking. Thomasitic philosophy even sought to intertwine the two together in some complimentarian fashion. But at the basis of Plato’s Greek thought is the idea that the physical world is fundamentally flawed, and inherently evil – something to escape from. Plato’s philosophy formed the basis for the kenotic theory of Christ, and the gnostic heresies early in the life of the church.
In many ways we continue the struggle against those same elements today. The Church is currently caught up in an “escapeist” mentality – further diluting it’s efficacy. We need to learn that Plato was wrong. The physical world will be and is being redeemed. And that God is God of heaven and earth – and all that He made, both physical and spiritual, is very good indeed.
Hi Will,
You closed the Austria Missions comments so I am responding briefly here. I appreciate your willingness to dialog with me through this. I had some other comments, but I won’t taint the posting here.
BTW – nice thought provoking dialog going on here too. Jesus definitely spoke of the kingdom of heaven many times as recorded in scripture. But there have been thousands of conversations regarding exaclty what that entails.
u can forget this one, no one will have the same opinion on religion.